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    Extra 330LT X flight model mod - Image 2

    Description

    Note from the author: Please upvote https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/workaround-for-missing-propeller-drag-please/368300

    Please check out ring and phylon race mods from thokio and Jacob at
    https://flightsim.to/file/8803/airrace-spielberg-austria-redbull-type
    https://flightsim.to/file/7950/airrace-new-york
    https://flightsim.to/file/7487/grand-canyon-airrace
    https://flightsim.to/file/2703/grand-canyon-racing-course

    This is no livery, this is a flight model mod. The idea is to make the flight behavior more realistic. One important detail is a realistic glide ratio. Now you can flare your airplane before touch-down.
    See http://www.andreadrian.de/FS_2020_sailplanes/ for more of my work for MSFS 2020:
    Gliders: SG-38, Aircreations 582SL
    Sailplanes: DG-808S, Ka 6E, ASK23
    Trainer: Tiger Moth
    Seaplane: Grumman Goose G21A
    Warbirds: Fokker Dr1, North American P-51D
    See Youtube videos https://youtu.be/siRfDWePNqE , https://youtu.be/HE-1hyqK11Q and https://youtu.be/mM-X0VXHZ30

    Flight model modification version 1.14.6.0, date 2021-04-05:

    I included "Uwa's lighting mods" from https://uwajimaya.github.io/FS2020/
    Uwajimaya, I credit your work!
    Pack version 1.13 (Feb 16, 2021)

    This flight level mod sets (L/D)max to 60% of the real life value. This is part of the "missing propeller drag" workaround. For (L/D)max see https://code7700.com/aero_l_over_d_max.htm

    Using the parameters drag_coef_zero_lift, htail_incidence, thrust_scalar and fuel_flow_scalar the maximum airspeed, (L/D)max and fuel consumption can be set to one operating point OP. I set the OP to full weight, no flaps, retracted landing gear, full thrust, level flight, no elevator input and altitude 300 ft.

    I use the MSFS 2020 documentation from https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/Samples_And_Tutorials/Defining_A_Flight_Model.htm Citations are in "". Asobo has expanded the documentation, but sadly the documentation is still far away from complete. Asobo please go on!

    To all critics of my work: First, I am an armchair pilot. If you only accept flight model mods from real life 4 stars pilots, don't use it. Second, if you think my mod is atrocious, don't use it. To everybody else: The mod is the best I can do with my knowledge of MSFS 2020. Stay happy and healthy!

    empty_weight = 1455 ; 1291 ; Empty weight, (LBS)
    cruise_speed = 219 ; 150 ; Knots True (KTAS)
    Wikipedia technical data.

    empty_weight_CG_position = 0.66, 0, 0 ; 0.85, 0, 0 ; Position of airplane empty weight CG relative to reference datum (FEET), z, x, y
    Set GC to 28% MAC.

    induced_drag_scalar = 1.5 ; 1
    flap_induced_drag_scalar = 1.5 ; 1
    For "missing propeller drag" workaround increase induced drag.

    drag_coef_zero_lift = 0.0559 ; 0.02770
    For "missing propeller drag" workaround increase parasitic drag.

    lift_coef_flaps = 0.00000
    drag_coef_flaps = 0.00000
    For "missing propeller drag" workaround I can't use flaps nor gear.

    ui_autonomy = 5 ; 4.5 ; max duration the aircraft can fly between take-off and landing in (Hrs)
    fuel_flow_scalar = 0.63 ; 1 ; Fuel flow scalar
    Adjust fuel_flow_scalar to ui_autonomy.

    [PROPELLER]
    thrust_scalar = 3 ; 1 ; Propeller thrust scalar
    Adjust thrust_scalar to cruise_speed.

    wing_dihedral = 2.8 ; 0.7 ; Dihedral angle Lambda (DEGREES)
    Correct that left rudder brings down left wing.

    wing_incidence = 1 ; Wing incidence (DEGREES)
    htail_incidence = 0.6 ; 2 ; Horizontal tail incidence (DEGREES)
    Set that for normal flight as much positive trim is needed as negative trim is needed for inverted flight at full thrust.

    elevator_trim_neutral = 0 ; 4 ; Elevator trim max angle (absolute value) (DEGREES), for indicators only (no influence on flight model)
    For my comfort.

    empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 1826 ; Empty pitch moment of inertia, Jxx (SLUG SQ FEET)
    empty_weight_roll_MOI = 68 ; 204 ; Empty roll moment of inertia, Jzz (SLUG SQ FEET)
    empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 1817; Empty yaw moment of inertia, Jyy (SLUG SQ FEET)
    This is "real" inertia. For better roll rate I decrease the roll value.

    pitch_stability = 0.001 ; 0.1
    roll_stability = 0.001 ; 0.1
    yaw_stability = 0.001 ; 0.1
    This is "fake" inertia. I switch off "fake" inertia.

    aileron_area = 116.7 ; 16.0 ; Elevator area (SQUARE FEET)
    For better roll rate increase aileron_area.

    aileron_span_outboard = 0.99 ; 0.7
    For better roll rate increase length of aileron as percentage of wing length.

    aileron_effectiveness = 1 ; 2
    For realism reduce "overshoot". The real world airplane performance is 400°/second roll rate. I set it to 220°/second. This is my compromise between performance and accuracy the current MSFS 2020 can handle.
    With Aircraft Editor, Debug, Tracking you see Rotation Speed Roll.

    aileron_up_limit = 30 ; Aileron max deflection  angle (DEGREES)
    aileron_down_limit = 30 ; Aileron max deflection down angle (absolute value) (DEGREES)
    Note: A higher value is too fast for the simulation and introduces too much "overshoot".

    elevator_up_limit = 34 ; 26 ; Elevator max deflection up angle (DEGREES)
    elevator_down_limit = 34 ; 26 ; Elevator max deflection down angle (absolute value) (DEGREES)
    Increase elevator limit to give "nice" spin animation.

    rudder_limit = 40 ; 30 ; Rudder max deflection angle (absolute value) (DEGREES)
    Better slip and skid.

    fuselage_length = 22.8 ; -1 ; Nose to tail (FEET)
    fuselage_diameter = 3.55
    fuselage_center_pos = -1.5, 0, 0.25
    Having the correct fuselage_length helps in defineing a good fuselage_center_pos.

    Summary: "If Asobo only knew what Asobo knows". Some Asobo engineers write documentation and tell everybody what to do and why. Other Asobo engineers write cfg files. As you can see above, these two groups don't talk to each other. Specially not about induced_drag_scalar and stability parameters.
    Nowhere Asobo writes about the importance of (L/D)max (glide ratio) and how to set a proper (L/D)max. For me is a bad (L/D)max value the single most important reason for poor quality of (Asobo) flight models. Let's see what Asobo will do in the next software release!

    Note from the author: Please upvote https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/workaround-for-missing-propeller-drag-please/368300

    Commentaires(21)

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    G

    almost 4 years ago

    can i link liveries to this model???

    C

    about 5 years ago

    I'm always hopeful with a plane improvement mod, thank-you! :-D
    o

    about 5 years ago

    As an armchair pilot myself, this doesn't seem at all "more realistic". It can hover in a vertical climb, and even accelerate. Seems like way too much power.
    P
    PaulFalkeAuthor

    about 5 years ago

    Please watch some Youtube videos of real life Extra 330 performance, like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fObqACgLhqM
    o

    about 5 years ago

    at any point did you see them take off like a helicopter vertically? i sure didn't, but your mod sure does
    P
    PaulFalkeAuthor

    about 5 years ago

    MSFS 2020 has limitations. I can make take-off behavior realistic or I can make maximum level flight airspeed realistic. Maybe Asobo will fix the "no propeller drag" some day. I assume I and everybody else can only make MSFS 2020 airplane "realistic within the limitations of the simulation". Do yourself a favor and forget my flight model mod. Get happy somewhere else!
    o

    about 5 years ago

    Oh I did, don't worry. It was deleted quite quickly. Do yourself a favor and state somewhere this is just geared towards level flight since that seems to be a major piece of relevant info. There may be other people out there that might be interested in using an aerobatic plane for non-level flight. This will save you from having to tell your critics to watch youtube videos, making excuses, or otherwise telling them what to do.
    l

    almost 4 years ago

    in the video sent, from the red bull air race, those planes are extremely high performance!

    T

    over 5 years ago

    Top job, great flight feeling, but the brakes are too hard
    P
    PaulFalkeAuthor

    over 5 years ago

    Thank you for the feedback. Can you please tell me at which LVR setting of thrust the brake shall hold the aircraft? This will allow me to have the "correct" setting in one go. Holding for me is airplane may "hop" a little, but does not move in a straight line.
    T

    over 5 years ago

    Hi Paul
    Unfortunately, I do not know the correct technical specification for the LVR setting.
    P
    PaulFalkeAuthor

    over 5 years ago

    In my opinion MSFS 2020 simulation is not about correct numbers, it is about correct feeling. What feels realistic is my question. Just play around and tell me the - totally out of the blue - LVR numbers you like best.
    T

    about 5 years ago

    With the new release V1.14.5.1, the brakes are soft and very close to the original. Many thanks
    t

    over 5 years ago

    Thank you for this. Yes the Extra 330 is not really realistic. The roll rate on the Extra planes used in the RedBull AirRace is 420 degrees per second. The MSFS2020 version is sluggish and responds too late. It is also bouncing in a weird way. Your effort made some improvements, but if you are able to figure out how to improve the roll rate, it would be fantastic.

    I have put together a few airraces. The last is a 'RedBull type' from Spielberg if you are interested.
    https://flightsim.to/file/8803/airrace-spielberg-austria-redbull-type

    I posted some videos of the real pros and you see it is not possible to fly like that in MSFS2020 (yet). Now, I do of course not have their experience but when flying the same in XP11 it looks and feels more realistic.
    P
    PaulFalkeAuthor

    over 5 years ago

    Within MSFS 2020 I have two limits: first the limits of the flight model. Second the limit of the simulation core, the flight dynamcis engine. I think the Extra 330LT hits the second limit. Or short answer: Use Xplane. Maybe in 2022 Asobo starts to change the flight dynamcis engine. Sorry!
    t

    over 5 years ago

    I understand. You have more knowledge of the flight model so thought of asking in case. Thank you.
    P
    PaulFalkeAuthor

    over 5 years ago

    I tried your LOXZ phylon course with the Extra. For me this is difficult. I have to meditate about flight model optimization for this task. At the moment the roll rate is to fast for me. But maybe the roll inertia is to high.
    Can you please fly the course with my Pitts 2S2 and Robin Cap10 mods and tell me which of the 3 aerobatics airplane you think is best for the phylon course? Speed is not the matter for me, but exact execution of the figures (rolls, ...) is. Thanks!
    t

    over 5 years ago

    Thank you, I will have a look. So, to clarify what I 'feel' on the roll rate. When putting the joystick full right or left, the Extra spins fast, BUT it is too 'slow' to start, like a delay, and when you are in vertical position and stop giving joystick input it keeps rolling further. I can compensate, by shifting the joystick the other direction, before you are vertical, but that is a terrible experience.
    Visually see this video about training in an Extra 300. The URL is set to when he is doing the clock-turns. Notice how when he starts giving input the plane moves immediately, and when he stops giving input the plane stops rolling immediately. (you may know this, but just sharing in case)
    https://youtu.be/LM4F6Xscm98?t=1494


    Another view of the student to see it only rolls with input.
    https://youtu.be/LM4F6Xscm98?t=713
    t

    over 5 years ago

    So I tried your mods on the two other planes, but I am not able to get them around the track. not sure if they are 'powerful' enough.

    Anyway with some practice this is me with the Extra 330 (without mods). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzsQHn87vjI
    P
    PaulFalkeAuthor

    over 5 years ago

    Thanks. Yes I made the Extra in the mod the most powerful aerobatics airplane. The only thing I see right now is to reduce Extra mod roll rate. The dilemma: you can have high roll rate but no precision because you demand more then the simulation core can provide or you put the roll rate within the simulation core capabilities.
    I started experimenting if graphic detail level and/or frame rate limitation changes the simulation core capabilities, but I have no conclusion. And Asobo is still optimizing that part of MSFS 2020.
    MSFS 2020MSFS 2024

    Extra 330LT X flight model mod

    Enhance the realism of your flight experience with this flight model mod for the Extra 330LT X. Adjust parameters like (L/D)max and fuel consumption to create a more authentic flying behavior. Dive into a detailed modification that includes changes to propeller thrust, induced drag, stability parameters, and more. Explore a comprehensive revamp for MSFS 2020, meticulously crafted for aviation enthusiasts seeking a true-to-life simulation.

    Téléchargements1K
    Version1.14.6.0
    Taille du fichier81.77 KB
    PubliéIl y a 5 ans
    Mis à jourIl y a 5 ans

    Avis des utilisateurs

    4.0

    4 avis

    5
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    More Information

    Simulateur
    MSFS2020
    Sub-CategoryFlight Physics
    Affiliation
    EXTRA 330LT

    Historique des versions

    I switch off "fake" inertia. empty_weight = 1455 lbs cruise_speed = 219 KTAS Wikipedia technical data.

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